Vadalin turn #0

Vadalin Turn #0
This sheet records important details about your Deity.

Corruption
Energies like order, chaos, or primal are terribly alien to the gods nature and swallowing them can alter the deities makeup. We call this sort of permanent alteration corruption, and if a player ever has 100 points of any one sort of corruption his deity becomes an entity controlled by the game's staff. Over time deities who drink a lot of these types of energy can also gain tolerance allowing them to handle more and more energy with less and less risk of corruption.

------------	...	Soul	Order	Chaos	Primal	Border	Cosmic
Corruption		0	0	0	0	0	0
Tolerance		50	0	0	0	0	0
Max Drank		100	10	10	10	10	10

This segment is meant to hold links to any active deals effecting your deity. All deals are subject to review once every five turns and may be altered at some later date, in the meantime they give you benefits and problems outside the purview of the normal game rules.

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Thaumatic Energy Stored & Total Upkeep
This section shows your current amount of stored thaumatic energy

[Hope, Fear, and acceptance will start arriving on turn one]

1 BIRTH ACTION
1 COMMUNICATION ACTION

Dedicated Banks
This entry is meant to hold ritual points that have been dedicated to specific tasks. Points in these banks can only be used for those tasks.

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Links
This contains links to the other posts listed within this turn so that you can easily navigate between them using the forward and back buttons on their browser rather than needing separate tabs open at all times. Player actions should always start below this post.
Vadalin turn #0 Demographics
Vadalin turn #0 Narratives

Summary
We don't know anything much about Vadalin yet. The Game has just begun and we are eager to meet this god.

Ok I will first take and turn my afterlife area into a city that is more of a trading center and temple. There will be 100 golems to guard the city. The city will have 1000 Gateways, large enough to pull full carts or even an eighteen wheeler through. Let us break it down slowly.

1. The Gateways: The gateways are Large Arches in the physical world that connect that world to the "Temple of Vadalin". There are specific rules that are connected to these doors. Only true believers may pass through, and a true believer is someone that worships only me as a god. He may have knowledge of other gods and may accept thier existance but, they may not worship them. If someone is worshipping another god inside of the temple the doors will not let them enter the temple after they leave. If they ever want to re-enter then they have to renounce all other gods and pronounce me as the one true god. They also have the ability to heal all the true believers that pass through, they purify whatever passes. By purify I mean anything not natural that is infecting the worshipper making them in perfect health. These gates can only be opened or closed from the inside, by me. To close a gate is simple but to open it, it takes either 2 full turns or an extreamly large amount of power. If the stone arch that creates the gateway in the physical relm is destroyed the gateway is blocked in the temple and therefore closed untile it can be magicaly repaired.

2. The Golems: The Guardians of the city. They are powerful 7 foot tall human shaped clay golems that patrol the entire temple. They have a regenerative ability and can mold into any shape they want. They are not sentient living beings they are more of a programed defence system. They are programed to destroy any forgien contaminent. Any person inside the temple that is not a true believer will be found and thrown out of the nearest gate.

3. The City: The City is called a temple because it is a temple. There are three levels to the temple, which is called Ankh-Morpork, and the levels are as noted. First level is the called Traders Commons, this is the place where people will live and trade in there markets. The people that are allowed to live in the temple are monks people that devoted thier lives to learning and teaching others the way of Vadalin and expanding the Vadrin empire. The second level is the Heart of Knowledge. This is the place that all the knowledge of the empire aquires and all the laws of the religion are made. This place only the monks of Vadalin are allowed to enter ever, people of the common world are not allowed to enter here and the entrence to the level is in the very center of the city in a spiral staircase that is large and extravagent made out of clear emeralds. The second level could be best described as a giant library. The third level or The Shadow of Vadalin, is the level that allows the high priests to communicate with me personaly. The most powerful and dedicated of the religion may come here and address my avatar with problems of the city and world. My avatar is a 10 foot golem that is decorated with lines of energy that eminate all over his body in a bright green pattern. The place consists of one large chamber with a circular table that is a giant ring that circles around the center stairs. The table starts at either end of the Throne that my avatar sits in and circles the room sitting up to 50 people and when it comes all the way around there is an opening that allows the high priests to enter the outer ring to sit down. The upkeep for the city is paid through the souls that go to the afterlife, in the religion it is stated that they are made one with thier lord and become the backbone of the city, in reality they are being used to pay for the upkeep for the city.

This is just the first part of the birth action, the next part is presentation which is also a communication action. The first part is to be a message in the form of a dream. The dream will be sent to ttwo people on each cpmmunity. The first person will be the person in the community with the most political influence. The second is the person with the most religious influence. If by chance these are the same person the dream will be given to the two people with the most influence in the community.

I am speaking to them through their mind btw, and I am assuming that I will be speaking the same language.

The dream starts out differently in one aspect for each person, they all will start in their own beds and then travel from there to a central location in the middle of a field just outside of the main town for the Rashi. There when they arrive they see a large group of people, people they know and people they don't. In reality they see the vision of everyone meeting me. In the center of this crowd is my Golem avatar that I described earlier. He is sitting there in a stone chain the lines glowing a magnifisant green glow. My golem rises and walks to the side where he raises his hands and summons out of the earth a stone arch large enough for him to fit through comfortably. Just before he walks through he turns and faces the dreamer (whomever this person may be) and speaks in an imposing powerfilled voice, "Find me here under the next full moon, I will be waiting. There will be no fighting in this area and more than you will arrive. I have shone you the way no find me." then he walks into the arch and shimmers away. Then the person wakes and it is mourning.

At this point it is up to the people to deside to go. I will rise up out of the ground on the mourning before the night of the next full moon, there I will stay till they arrive. If by chance no one shows then I will speak to the first person that showed, but only at night. At the time that the people arrive and I awaken, I will make the arch and do everything as I did in the dream except I will say something different. I will say "My children I am Vadalin. I am here to help you grow and prosper greater than any other civilization ever birthed. You will build a city around this arch and when you are done I will reward you with the greatest gift any mortal can receive. You are all brothers and no longer will be fighting amongst eachother. You will be forever known as The Vadrin Empire!" Then I raise my hand and adress the crowd once more before I depart. "Will those who received the vision please come forward." when they all come forward I will adress these personaly, "Follow me you all shall enter and we may talk on what will be done out in this mortal world. Your reward for arriving is the privlage to step into the temple of Ankh-Morpork" I take them with me and they shall be the first high priests and I will teach them the ways of my people which they will enforce onto the people of the city. I then allow them 24 hours to get things together family and starting consturction of the city and to pass the word that anyone caught murdering will instantly be killed in the form of being buried alive. Also they will tell the people that I can see everything that they are doing and to not be getting any bad ideas. The people that follow me in will have the privlage to live there in the bottom quarter with their families. They will have free acess in and out of the portal.

I think that is enough I can not think of any more to tell you. I do teach them what roads are other than that I demand they teach eachother what they know.

ok, very good, and close to what we talked about in the past.
I do have a number of questions/comments. i might need to check with windbourne on some things, and there are some things i really need clarification on before i can even start costing or seeing what entities want to make deals.

so, in no particular order:

1. Need to be clear on the no X effects rule. I am fairly certain you were not trying to get any, but your wording indicated you might, so wanted to address this.
the following things you wanted the gates to have were all stated in very absolute terms:

• That they can only be opened or closed from the inside, by you.
  
• They will only let worshipers of you in.
  
• That they will totally heal/cure all who use them successfully.
  

All good effects, all legal, BUT, to be clear, you will want to put a lot of your free birth action combat values on these effects, as a powerful enough effect CAN force a gate open, or trick a gate into thinking someone is a worshiper of you who is not, or even a powerful enough divine disease might be able to resist your healing powers, there is no way around this, you can make it hard to counter your gates, but not impossible. Figured you knew this, but wanted to make sure it was stated explicitly.

2. To clarify, you say if a gate in the physical realm is broken, the connecting gate is blocked until magically repaired. Need to know how it is repaired. Do you just do it? Can a priest of yours do it? Is there a specific ritual involved? You will likely want combat values on the gates that also help protect the gates from being destroyed. Will need to know how you repair them, likely will not be too easy/quick.

3. Also, for clarification, you said they gates purify, and then said " By purify I mean anything not natural that is infecting the worshipper making them in perfect health."... chicken pox is natural, as is mumps, etc..etc.. do you mean to heal all disease, or only supernatural disease, and remove implants/nannites/etc? need exact meaning here.

4. You might want to review this link about communication actions. And the next set of questions are on that...again, i might have missed something.
There are 600+ people each in each of the three cultures, if i read this right, you are trying to get high ranking people from all the groups of all three cultures to have a dream.
Was not stated explicitly in the post, as did not think it mattered, but the Ghenshe have about 15 wandering tribes, the Hisar have about 10 villages, and the rashi also have about 10 villages. now, the following issues.

• Are you in fact going for all three cultures? a communication action is limited to 50 people, you want two per grouping, that is about 70 people, if you are going for all three cultures, you will need to focus it down a little more.
  
• What communication options are you using? As the link above stated, you can talk to a group, and do two things from a list that follows. I can think of one or two options that could assist getting people from all over the place in one spot. As i said, the Rashi and Hisar are at opposite ends of your square, and the Ghenshe wander about in a large area to the south, they are not in close contact.
  
• ALSO, need to talk to john, as you are doing two communication actions, not sure how we are handeling this...youa re giving them a dream, and then talking to them in the field much later. i am ok wiht the arch being part of the birth action...but thats an issue...
  

gotta run, will go over it again later, but answers on those questions to start will help.

ok, a few more questions...and a note
i think you just get one communication action, to either 50 people, or two groups of 25, if you sent the dream to 25, and appeared to 25 who arrive...that might work

As a note, you have an avatar golem, all well and good, but you have it leaving the afterlife...the golems i thought were all restricted to that area. if you want a avatar golem than can leave, i need details to figure out feasibility and costs/etc, as even one golem you can control in the real world could do a LOT and would be a HUGE boon if you chose to use it thusly. And be even more costly, etc..etc..

It is a thought that might want to rework your action in light of the specific ways the rules work in these situations.

ok, moving on:

1. what tech/skills do you expect htem to use to build the city? the tents of the ghenshe? the structures of the Hisar? The stone walled circles of the Rashi? Are you trying to give them tech to build it? If so, what ones?

2. You say for them to pass the word that: 'anyone caught murdering will instantly be killed in the form of being buried alive.' Are you saying if they find a murderer, right away they are to bury them alive? Or..are you saying you will divinely bury them alive? If so, where did you set this up, i must have missed it...

3. You mention earlier that worshipers of you can enter the portals, and then at the end give the priests and their families free access to the portals... what form of restrictions does everyone else have to the portals? is it cultural, or actually coded into the portals?

AND side note, in case you are expecting to give all the groups the knowledge how to travel to this field in the dream.. 1. that's a very different set of info for all the different locations you are hitting, and 2. you yourself do not have a perfect map of the area, these three cultures know their own non inter lapping zones...

if you want to clarify, or do a major rework., that's fine, want to work with you and your vision, but having trouble understanding exactly what all you want done and how. Love the concepts, just need to clarify.

oh..almost forgot.
you might notice that governments are techs now, if you wish to setup a priest governed system, we are looking at a new government tech.

Ok I am gonna answer them in the same order you asked them.

1. I am well aware of the X factor I am guessing that your refering to me taking only certain ones in. I am taking them in as like the first ones they will be the ones to first live in the temple. Everyone else can enter and leave as they please (my followers) they just are not allowed to live there yet. To be a little more specific on what a follower is, not only do they have to believe in me but also follow my teachings.

2. Ok this is an easy one. I do pay for it and repair it on my own will, however if I say make them do something in exchange to keep up appereinces then that is another thing but yeah basicaly it is me paying for and fixing the arches. They kinda just reform when it happens. Now something I want to clear with you guys before we go further is that I also planned to use the destroy and repair method to move the locations of the door. I am also aware of how expencive it is and I do not plan on this happening a lot.

3. Ok when I say "perfect health" I mean it. No desiese or foriegn objects/organisms/matter. Basicaly walking through a gate can cure you of anything but death and old age. If your dead your dead.

4. Ok this one I came up with on the spot. First you did misundersand me I do not mean 2 people from each group, I mean 2 families from each culture. The 2 most influencial families from each culture. You see I figured there was a lot of people BUT if I made the most popular people all see the same thing, in this case the most popular religious and the most popular political family in each culture (side note even if you are travaling hunters that migrate you are gonna have some idea about whos who. Migrating cultures do meet from time to time to discuse the goings on) and with it being families that have the dream a wife and kids all seeing things the same in their dreams, this has to be a sign from god. I do not have to be there I just thought it would be a neat effect if the dream was more of a futuristic vision of things to come.Instead I can just instruct them to walk through the gate and explain to them that this is their town now and that they may use it as a center place to control the empire from. Towns are stil to be built outside and around the arch.

I hope this clears things up.

hmmm I do not know about a priesthood, this is gonna be like a merchants religion. Kinda think about ferangi just less douche bags

ok, some of my questions are still not answered, will rephrase/etc.
a lot is clarified, let me go over what is now understood, and what still is unclear, in no particular order.

CLEAR
-you want to communicate to two families from each culture, specifically the most influential political family, and the most influential religious group.
-you are giving them a location, and a date when and where the first arch will rise from the earth.
-those that arrive, will see the arch rise, and be able to go in, yadda yadda yadda.
-So, you want your arches to be indestructible, or actually, as long as you have power if one is destroyed it will be repaired almost at once....will need to look into pricing issues on this....
-ok, so the healing from arch travel is true healing, but not affecting age related things...disease cured, broken limbs mended, missing limbs fixed, diseases cured....

UNCLEAR
-just to be certain, genetic diseases are cured by the gates?
-you do not seem to understand the x factor in your reply. You letting only certain people in is the programming you give the gates, thats no big deal. i mean, that those three effects i mentioned, the healing, the only letting in your worshipers, and them only being openable/closeable by you CANNOT be unbeatable effects. A powerful enough effect can beat any of those powers. Just making sure this is understood at the start.
-to be a worshiper they must also follow your teachings, do you have any teachings other than build me a city, don't fight, at this time.
-what things, if any are you doing to assist people who are farther away from the main rashi city to get there?
-what techs, if any are you giving the, (refer to the above link for communication action tech giving), are you giving any building techs? any government techs? if not they will figure out what they can on their own, and it might not be what you envision, but they will come up with something.
-still unclear on the burying murderers alive. is this a command, or an effect you are trying to setup?

there is more to sort out, but i still need to understand these things.

One reason that my staff member Dragonsparr is having trouble understanding this turn is that everything is jumbled together and confused. There are elements of birth action and communication action all intertwined, and he's unsure of which communication action options are in play, and what your bringing in from your birth action deal. The protocol for posting a turn is listed in detail Here..

By merging everything together like this you don't just confuse the staff, but you also push things together in your own mind and skip over details that are "obvious" or that simply get lost in the confusion of jumping from one topic to the next. Thus it is recommended that even within a single action you separate different paragraphs with an empty line. That lets everyone ask questions and talk about different parts of the action in a concrete way, like asking about your hand versus your head, those are very different subjects with lots of details. A hand and a head don't work anything at all alike, but they are both important parts of your body.

Merging the communication action and birth action also is slightly unfair because they operate on entirely different power levels. The birth action is a BIG deal. It has lots of power and can reshape the very nature of your god. The communication action is a little thing, meant to introduce you to the people and get them started on the path to profitable worship. It's hemmed in with a lot of rules, most of which are designed to make it hard, or impossible, for a player to contact everyone and convert them to his worship during the first turn. When you merge them together a staff member is tempted to bypass those rules by making the impossible things part of your birth action deal instead of saying "NO" the way they would if the two actions were separate.

That stated I think that such a merger is allowable, but due to it's unfair nature, and it's sloppiness it can't be free. If you want to keep the two actions together as some sort of super action the penalty will be 10 EXTRA points of corruption from whatever power source the staff member thinks is appropriate. I say extra because this is in addition to whatever points a player COULD be getting as part of your birth action deal itself. In your case, as your trying to create an empire I'd suggest that it would be ten points of order.

I can't wait to see how you and dragonspar work out the details, and if it's a super action, or the two actions separated out and clarified, this general idea is interesting and should evolve into something very cool over the next few turns. I certainly do appreciate that you got this out so quickly and it's certain you put a lot of thought into it from what I read, it just needs some clarification so Dragonspar can be confident he is giving you something that is at least close to what you'd like. I've run turns like this from my "gut" before and the players effected got some things that they REALLY didn't expect out of the deal. LOL

Because of the fact that for this to work correctly I need it intertwind I am willing without a doubt to take the extra pointage.

noted.
Looking forward to the clarifications of the things that are currently unclear, so we can move forward and start defining the action and setting things up. Esp what all the options you are choosing for the communication action are.

I'm also hoping this player gets back to you. I don't think he's going to pick options for communication, analyzing his post he's got either 1.5 or 2.5 complete communication actions listed depending on how I decide to look at it as a staff member. That's not including any extra destiny effects or teaching of technology beyond road building that may be involved in "founding the empire" but if he doesn't clarify we'll be forced to assume he's giving out minimal help and simply role play the people as best we can without extra techs or destiny effects. He'll also wind up with only one entry point into his temple-city for the first hundred years, and with levels defined by whatever deal you want to give him once the turn is locked . . . based obviously on what he's written here and in his registration but definitely your baby.

That is some of what I meant with my unfair and sloppy comment previously. It's unfair because he will be getting a lot more communication than he should, and sloppy because he won't be likely to get what he really wants without a lot more clarification, and even then he needs to be careful when he clarifies or we'll use the text to justify whatever he DOES get. I'm posting now, with a full day left before turns lock so he has time to write a major post. I want to be sure we are strenuously fair to players. Once it's done, it's done, we only care what was written and posted, not what the player actual meant, or had in mind. We aren't mind readers, we just do the best we can with what we have.

Even without a post I think this will become a great birth action but I also think that without further posts the player may not be as happy as we'd like with the results.

Ok I have taken a long time to try and figure out how to break down this and bring it to you. Some of what I say may be slightly different for better understanding.

A. Birth action- The temple as described earlier. Creating one arch in the center of my area. The arches have powers of healing, when someone walks through the arch to go from the physical world to the temple or vice versa, the person is made as healthy as possible. By healthy as possible I mean, all forigne matierials are removed, harmful or none, this means if someone has a bullet in them it is removed same with desiese and anything else. If a person is missing something they should have, a chemical in the brain that is missing, a leg, or even an organ is put back, same if something is there that needs replaced. basicaly it heals, but as soon as someone dies then it is dead, this is not the necronamicon. The arches can be destroyed, and when they are it takes a very powerful ritual to fix it. I can not fix them for one hundread years, and only one every hundread years. The golems are included with the temple.

I hope that clears birth action. Now I will move to the communication action which I am trying for a simple plan.

B. Communication- I give visions to two families in each culture. That includes fathers mothers brothers sisters daughters and sons. I will choose the most influencial families, one ine politics, and the other in religion, giving these two families the same visions I am hoping to bring them closer and more copertive and doing it to two families in all three cultures I am hoping to lead them to the same area.

I will be giving the vision seperatly now.

C. Dream vision- Ok they all start out in a white area that slowly forms into each persons home then they fly with a sky veiw of below to the center of my area where the arch is. When they arrive they see eachother in the dream and automaticaly remembers eachothers faces. Then they watch the arch rise up out of the ground on one side and then enter the ground on the other side. Then a city builds itself around them in high speed, they see their people working together and build a grand city around this one arch. Then the arch in their dream glows from the center and they all get a simple glimps of the temple portraid as paradise then everything goes white and they hear find my land, build my city, in the name of the creater, Vadalin. Then they wake up and remember in detail the entire vision.

I hope this is exactly what you need.

the hundred year wait to repair an arch, and only one every hundred years is a lot more acceptable than the previous idea, and i will be trying to figure out if thats to much or just abour right, but thanks for the suggestion, def in the right direction and sounds good.

now, as to the communications, there was a bit of a misunderstanding, and it was unclear to me when you posted this turn the first time that groups that you talk to with a communication action must be in close proximity at the time. That is, it normally does not allow for talking to people in three different regions many miles apart. This is what all the 'combining birth action and communication action' were all about. will sort out details with john as to how to best handle that, as i did not realize and clarify until so late before turn ends, and will likely not allow such in the future.

Now, there are a few things still not clear to me, if you have time before this is locked, please reply.

Are diseases caused by genetic errors, fixed by the gates? Does this fix downs syndrome at the genetic level for example? I mean, it cures aids, thats fine, got that, not sure about the genetic ones.
At this time, without clarification i will rule that you DO want them to do this, and that does bump up the cost, based on the statement that: 'If a person is missing something they should have, a chemical in the brain that is missing, a leg, or even an organ is put back, same if something is there that needs replaced.' I am still not sure if this is what you meant, but it is what i am doing without clarification.

Still not sure on this: what things, if any are you doing to assist people who are farther away from the main rashi city to get there? just giving them a general map, or something more?
Current ruling is you are just giving them rough directions, as stated before you do not have a perfect map of the area, but can give general enough directions.


Still not sure what techs, if any are you giving the, (refer to the above link for communication action tech giving), are you giving any building techs? any government techs? if not they will figure out what they can on their own, and it might not be what you envision, but they will come up with something.
current ruling has you giving them roads....not sure exactly how i will handle that, will reread a lot and come up with something.

still unclear on the burying murderers alive. is this a command, or an effect you are trying to setup?
Current ruling, is that this is an edict so if a true worshiper of you finds someone murdering someone, they are supposed to bury the killer alive as soon as possible.

Q. Are diseases caused by genetic errors, fixed by the gates? Does this fix downs syndrome at the genetic level for example? I mean, it cures aids, thats fine, got that, not sure about the genetic ones.
At this time, without clarification i will rule that you DO want them to do this, and that does bump up the cost, based on the statement that: 'If a person is missing something they should have, a chemical in the brain that is missing, a leg, or even an organ is put back, same if something is there that needs replaced.' I am still not sure if this is what you meant, but it is what i am doing without clarification.

A. Ok we can eliminate that last part I agree that is a little too powerful, let us stick with the diseses and shrapnal and objects that are not supposed to be there including parasites.

Q. Still not sure on this: what things, if any are you doing to assist people who are farther away from the main rashi city to get there? just giving them a general map, or something more?
Current ruling is you are just giving them rough directions, as stated before you do not have a perfect map of the area, but can give general enough directions.

A. rough directions is perfect you see it takes two to tango and I want them to try, want them to do this partly on thier own I plant the seed now they must grow.

Q. Still not sure what techs, if any are you giving the, (refer to the above link for communication action tech giving), are you giving any building techs? any government techs? if not they will figure out what they can on their own, and it might not be what you envision, but they will come up with something.
current ruling has you giving them roads....not sure exactly how i will handle that, will reread a lot and come up with something.

A. they are getting no techs. all the techs they get I want them to start by sharing with eachother that is the reason behind doing the visions with all three cultures.

Q. still unclear on the burying murderers alive. is this a command, or an effect you are trying to setup?
Current ruling, is that this is an edict so if a true worshiper of you finds someone murdering someone, they are supposed to bury the killer alive as soon as possible.

A. Ok all civilizations have a way of dealing with wrong doers well the only "commandments" that I am giving is that those who take life must be made example of and are buried underground to be joined with me and forced to help me hold up the earth, in truth it is an eye for an eye theory, if it backfires then my god will learn. The other is that men and women are created in design to be a whole, a mans weaknesses are a womans streangths and a womans weaknesses are a mans streangths, yin and yang theory twords men and women being equil.

I hope this is better

ok, looks good, answers what i needed, will likely be a lot of surprises, but hopefully should be entertaining for you as well.

Bring it!